Time Capsules - Old Photographs from the past

84K was the code for Chester (GW) shed until the 1958 regional boundary changes when it became 6E.

Judging by the unclutterd view forwards - I think this may be at 6A - the former LNWR/LMS shed at the other end of Chester station.
84K/6E closed in 1960 - with Western locos then being serviced at 6A if a passenger loco and 6B - Mold junction - if a goods working.

Is the date (1960) of this photo right? The tender has the old B.R. emblem and it looks like a single chimney on the Loco. I'm not positive but I think 1022 had a double chimney fitted sometime in it's life. I will have to check up on that to try and pin the date down. Any more comment Martin?

EUREKA!! 1022 was fitted with a double stack in May 1956. First shed and 1950 Laira (Plymouth).Was at 84G(Shrewsbury) from 1959 till withdrawal. Could have been anywhere in between. If some-one has an old Ian Allan Locoshed book they might be able to shed some light on the matter. I would suggest the photo was more like 1950. Indeed, is it Chester shed? Never got there so can't comment. Loved those Counties, pity none were saved.

I agree Bill. The old BR emblem would have been unlikely to have lasted beyond 1958. I wouldn't know about the date of conversion to double chimney, but your finding for 1956 means this shot was earlier.
A new/replica 'County' is being created at Didcot and will be named 1014 County of Glamorgan.

Thanks, Martin. Plenty of info on GW Society web-site or Wikiepedia. I heard that a new Grange was being built (Llangollen?) but not a County. Glad they are using an original name, especially Glamorgan, my old stamping ground! I hope the finish it before I kick the tin!

Looks like it is in BR Lined Black too - which pins it down further as from '58 they started to paint them and other in green again.
It could be Chester West - if the bridge in the distance is carrying the A56 - Hoole Road.....

BTW I don't think it was the first double chimney County - the first 1000 - Middlesex had one from new - but this was a BR version similar to those later fitted to the Kings and Castles too..

Re Bill's posting 2 October - the new Grange is effectively the 81st, 6880 Betton Grange, being built as you suggested at Llangollen and using parts from other locomotives - eg the boiler comes from 7927 Willinton Hall aqnd the front bogie from 5952 Cogan Hall. New frames have been constructed and a driving wheelset was the spare for 2-6-0 7325.
1014 County of Glamorgan will be so named in memory of the source engines - Vale of Glamorgan Council's 'Barry Ten Collection'. Maybe 7927 has contributed parts to this venture too.
Re this image - 1022 looks in a pretty dire state for 1950 - not a cleaner in sight!

Hi,Peter! Thanks for your comment. I didn't suggest 1022 was the first County to have a double chimney. It was fitted in 1956. It's first SHED was Laira and in 1950. I did put full stops in, you might have misread my comments. With regard to your comments about B.R. black I never saw a County as such. I think this poor old girl is about due for works so the photo could have been taken just prior to 1956 when the double stack was fitted. You are right of course Martin, Couldn't have been 1950. Thank you both for your comments and info.

No worries Bill.
Hornby actually did a Limited Edition of 1022 in the Lined Black too - this livery suited the Counties very well and reflected the 6MT rating not 6P.
Being primarily an LMS man the Counties have a resonance for me and were common around my neck of the woods too - Chester.
Yep agree re not 1950 - the Cycling lion embelm was a little later.
The dates for emblems are interesting as they only really changed at full 'general' overhauls - which were mileage related - so locos used on expresses and long hauls ran up the miles and had more overhauls/opportunity toi be repainted - so usually lost olde emblemss quicker.
However, I have seen photographs from 1960 with a large prairie, small prairie and pannier - still with Great Western in full on the tank-sides !
Even on express locos there were plenty of the old cycling lion emblems still around in the very early 60's.

Hi, Peter. Thanks for your comments. You are right about about the Emblems ,Mileage, O/hauls etc. I too have seen locos. with old stuff on the sides but not many. I started work in 1960 so Gricing went up a Double Chimney! Not to say I didn't see any more Steam but chasing was out of the question. Except girls of course which by that time were more attractive than locos. I had seen many times locally. Also, by that time Steam was starting to decline rapidly in South Wales. I would still suggest that 1022 was about to be shopped in the photo, so would be possibly early 1956. More comments to read, I might be copping some flak or more info.! Keep up the comments and info., good site to compare notes and have a friendly discussion or argument :-) Bill

Nice One Bill :)
I have a model railway set in Sept '59, so am an Oracle on '59 - but not so great on before or after - Used the Ian Allan locoshed book for 1959 coupled with finding photos of the individual locos I wanted to model which was a labour of love, and has helped me find out info on which retained the older emblems. :)

OMG Pete Melling! You have a copy of a 1959 Locoshed Book?!!!! Guard it with your life and wife if you have one! I wish I still had mine and the old Ian Allan bible, the "Combined Volume" of around that time! All I have now is an old one of about 1962 I think. Not Much in it at all . About as thick as one of the old Region Books. O.K., let's stick to what the site is all about. You are no doubt correct about some Counties being in Black livery. Down in the Swansea area they were not what you would call common. Neyland had three or four at different times and I used to see them on a regular basis on Milk trains. On occasions on Summer Saturdays we used to get the odd Shrewsbury (84G) Counties call in. If you would like to Email me direct instead of cluttering up Marcel's site I would be pleased to compare notes. Off to bed now, it's midnight in Tasmania! Cheers, Bill

Hello Pete (Melling) and Bill, September 1959 was the month I joined the RAF, so my gricing (Lincoln and Grantham area) came to a sudden stop, and didn't resume until recently - a 50 year gap! However as I now live in Sweden there's not much opportunity these days. You can see my more recent results on the associated Librapix Trains web site.

The 1959 Locoshed book was a reprint I picked up new in @ 1985 - there may be a few around...
I do have an original 1959 WR Locoshed book however - most useful for the train identification numbers - listed in one section !

'Ello Again Pete Melling. The 1959 Loco.shed books could be a bit mis-leading on times after Dr. Beeching wielded his axe. Locos. got shoved all over the place or withdrawn very quickly. As you know it could take three months between information gathered and publication. I used to have a WR shed book when spotting, I think it had a green cover with sooty fingerprints all over it! Happy days eh! P.S. I think the modified double chimneys as fitted to the Counties looked far better than the ones on the Castles and Kings don't you think? Lower profile and they sounded really good too! Not that the double stacked Castles sounded any worse. I used to really love the sound of a double stacked Castle or County! TTFN + Cheers

Well it's good for 59 - the infamous Dr B. didn't publish until late 62 early 63 - not a big fan of his, whatever hindsight says.....

Whilst on the subject, in 1965 I saw a Manor fitted with a 3,500 gall. tender with GWR on the sides. I have a slide of it somewhere up the loft. It was quite a talking point at the time. Off hand, I think it was 7814 or 7815. The sighting was on Gloucester shed, although I had seen the loco previous coupled to a tender with the latter BR logo.

You're right Pete M, our "friend' Beeching didn't come on the scene until the early sixties and I think his Forte was getting rid of routes, stations, signal boxes and their associated staff,together with the unwanted locos that ran the routes. What I was really getting at Pete was the influx of Diesels into the West Country. When Laira was fully dieselised a myriad of locos were displaced, not only from Laira shed. Counties, Granges, Manors and Kings were displaced. I mention these classes particularly because they were the first to disappear at a fast rate.Take the Counties and Granges,none left. Caught everybody by surprise. The others ended up all over the show, even Cardiff got at least 7 Kings and I think Landore ended up with a couple of ex Laira Castles but I wouldn't swear to that. Pete Williams might know. Would such rapid transfers have upset the timing of the 1959 shed-book Pete? Just curious, not stating a fact. ;-) Speaking of odd tenders, I remember 6905 Claughton Hall of Landore running around with a 8 wheeled tender around 1959. Possibly ex ROD, not sure. Maybe Swindon were short of tenders! Remember that Peter W?

The main reason that Granges & Counties were all scrapped is because none were passed through Woodhams of Barry fame. Whilst I was starting my apprenticeship in Swindon in 1965, there were still plenty of Granges around, mainly in appalling external condition, i.e. number plates & name plates removed, some even missing their safety valve bonnets. I think they used to work in from Oxford on Parcel workings along with Halls & use the Works turntable. Guess who would voluteer to turn them. Also at this time Clun Castle was also a regular,coming from the Gloucester line, she was kept smart. Cardiff received eight Kings in all between Sept 60 & Sept 62, they were 6003/4/10/8/9/23/4 & 8. I remember the Hall at Landore with the eight wheel tender, rumours were it was from the Great Bear although I've never confirmed that. Just a point Landore closed to steam in June 61 before Laira which closed to steam in May 64. Laira ran as a steam/diesel shed for a while, it's last Castle (7022 Hereford Castle) leaving in Nov 63, she was the standby loco.

The WR got rid of steam far quicker than anybody else, which wasn't very prudent especially when you were 'rowing your own boat', by plumping for diesel hydraulics of unknown availablity.
In 1965 the only GWR steam was at former WR sheds that had been transferred to the LMR - like Tyseley and Croes Newydd !
Also around 62 Canton was closed to be converted to a Diesel shed - so Cardiff East Dock was suddenly full of Castles !
There was a GWR 8 Wheel tender all RODS where 6 wheelers - this one had a standard Collett 4000 Gallon tender o the 8 wheel chassis

On the 8 Wheel Tender....
There was a 2-bogie 8 wheel tender that ran behind the Great Bear - which seems to have been scrapped around 1925, after being attached to County 4-4-0 - 3816.
The Collet 8 wheeler was built in 1930 and ran behind:
Halls: 4918, 5904, 5919, 5957 and 6951
Stars: 4043
Castles: 4093, 5001, 5032, 5068 and 5071

There was still plenty of ex GWR steam around in 1965 working from sheds like Oxford, Cardiff East Dock' Gloucester, Didcot etc. Steam on the region finished on 31/12/65, it was then only left to the former LMR sheds that Peter M. mentioned. Canton closed to steam in Sept 62. At the time Cardiff East Dock found itself with an allocation of 16 Castles. As Bill stated, I remember the eight wheel tender being attached to 6905, the Great Bear story is what we younger spotters were told at the time by the older lads, as I said: never confirmed.

Loads of photos of the Great Bear bogie tender, e.g www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Great_bear.jpg

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